Re: [Harp-L] spiral tuning tuning - and "folk" instruments
Yup. That's a good answer. You apprehended my reference to the weird and wonderful Spence in exactly the spirit in which it was intended. It would just be a hell of a lot easier if the harp had tuning pegs.
Cheers,
RD
>>> Winslow Yerxa <winslowyerxa@xxxxxxxxx> 18/02/2009 7:02 >>>
All folk instruments have tuning - and intonation - schemes that someone made a conscious decision about, whether it's the manufacturer or the player/customizer. And those choices influence what players do with the instrument, because certain things will sound good and others will sound either bad or "interesting" or "characteristic."
As soon as the player decides to change the tuning, whether it's Joseph Spence with drop-D guitar tuning or a harmonica player with a spiral tuning, they face choices about intonation, with the goal (usually) of making the instrument sound good for the things the player wants to do.
You can bet that Spence tuned his guitar to give what he considered to be pleasing sounding intervals and chords (note how his octaves are out of tune but his close-voiced chords sound fairly sweet). And while he may have liked his low pitched strings tuned rather on the sharp side, for his chords he very likely had a methodology that was directly traceable to a known tuning system (just, Pythagorean, 12TET) even if he didn't know those terms or delve into the mysteries of intonation systems with ratios and cents. Whatever it was he did, it was not a matter of chance.
Because on the harmonica it's so hard to fine-tune the intonation of chords while you're playing them, or even between tunes, this stuff is crucial to your sound, whether you accept what the manufacturer decided to do or take it into your own hands.
Besides, the more I learn about "folk," the less I'm inclined to associate it with the term "simple."
Winslow
Winslow Yerxa
Author, Harmonica For Dummies ISBN 978-0-470-33729-5
--- On Tue, 2/17/09, Rick Dempster <rick.dempster@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: Rick Dempster <rick.dempster@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Harp-L] spiral tuning tuning
To: winslowyerxa@xxxxxxxxx
Cc: harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx
Date: Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 4:33 AM
Winslow;
What do you make of Joseph Spence, with regard to tuning etc.?
Are we not overloading this simple folk
instrument wth impossible expectation?
Rick 'up late-2' Dempster
Aust.,
'burned out' Victoria
>>> Winslow Yerxa <winslowyerxa@xxxxxxxxx> 17/02/09 6:46 PM
>>>
Is it a diatonic tuning or a chromatic tuning?
If chromatic (either because the harmonica will have a slide or because the
spiral tuning itself spirals through the chromatic scale) then 12TET is your
most straightforward choice.
If it's diatonic then sweetening intervals might me OK. But it could open a
can of worms.
One thing about spiral tuning that is different from other diatonic tunings is
that EVERY note is the third of a chord. So, for instance, making your fifths
pure by raising them 2 cents from 12TET will also affect their qualities as
thirds.
For instance, let's say you start with the note sequence C-E-G-B. If you
lower E by 14 cents for a pure major third, and also raise G by 2 cents, you
have a rather large minor third between E and G - 316 cents, but this is an
acoustically pure interval and sounds nice enough. B can be 14 cents lower than
G, which will put it in a pure fifth relationship with E.
So far so good. But as you go up you're raising your fifths by 2 cents and
lowering your major thirds by 14 cents. As a net result, when you arrive back at
C two octaves higher in Hole 8, the note is 8 cents flat compared to C two
octaves lower.
I don't want to think about the opposite bank of notes (D-F-A-C-E-G etc);
it's too late at night to ccome up with anything likely to sound pleasant.
:)
I wonder if anyone sane has tackled this problem.
Winslow
Winslow Yerxa
Author, Harmonica For Dummies ISBN 978-0-470-33729-5
--- On Sun, 2/15/09, ynfdwas@xxxxxxxxx <ynfdwas@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: ynfdwas@xxxxxxxxx <ynfdwas@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Harp-L] spiral tuning tuning
To: "Harp-L@Harp-L. Org" <harp-l@xxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 4:19 PM
would spiral tuning be best served with equal
temperament? or compromised thirds?
Robert Hale, "the Duke Of Wail"
http://www.dukeofwail.com/
Gilbert, Arizona
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